The Importance of Traditional Painting

[ChristianM]

Hi,

I don't know if this is the right place to post it but anyway here's some doubts.
I would like to know if being able to draw well is really important do a good matte painting, or you just need to have some knowledge (perspective, light and shadow, shape and space) about it ?
Also, what type of paint do you recommend me to practice and study ?

[rrische]

I think drawing is important- it's the basis for all the visual arts,
including sculpture.
But I know a few digital matte artists who don't have an art background
at all. But you should definitely take some time and study the principles.
Composition, design, value, color, proportion etc. Learn as much as you can.

As to what to use....PHOTOSHOP. Learn this program. It's the industry standard tool for digital matte painting.

[ChristianM]

Thanks Rick for the drawing advice.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but when I said "type of paint" I meant oil painting, watercolor, acrylics....
I don't have an art background, so I want do develop it. But I don't know which type of paint do you recommend me to study and practice.

[rrische]

Now I'm confused. Matte paintings aren't actually "painted" anymore,
not outside the computer. So I wouldn't recommend oils, acrylics etc.
to you unless you wanted to be a fine artist.
Maybe I should define some terms...matte painting isn't an art form
in and of itself. It's defined solely by its function in the larger art form
of filmmaking. A matte painting can be executed in any media (collage,
oils, acrylics, digital tools) and matte painters today can come from any or
all of these traditions. I don't think you have to study and practice
traditional painting before you can be a matte artist.

But studying fine art PRINCIPLES is definitely a good idea.

[ChristianM]

I don't think you have to study and practice traditional painting before you can be a matte artist.

Don't you agree that someone who has an art background will probably be a better digital matte painter than someone who doesn't ?

Don't you think that someone who know just the principles of drawing and traditional painting will have more difficulties in doing a really nice matte painting than someone who paints traditionally and draws very well.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my posts.

[rrische]

There are plenty of professional matte artists who've never picked up
a paintbrush, Giles Hancock (of ILM) and Ronn Brown (formerly of ILM)
are two that come to mind.
I think you can separate knowing how to paint from having a painters
eye. The new set of digital tools are so vast, that there are many many
ways to attain the image you want to get. But if you don't have a skilled
and artistic EYE, then no amount of software tutorials are gonna help.

Just my opinion.

edit: I'm a painter. I painted for years, and still do for enjoyment.
If I'm struggling with a shot, and have exhausted every other way
I know to get the image I want, I'll reluctantly pick up Photoshop's
paint tools. I just don't like them. But I'll admit there are some artists
making SPECTACULAR work with the PS tools. But you don't need to
learn how to be an oil painter to learn painting in PS. Just jump right
into PS!

[Muni]

I agree wholehaertedly with rick on this one.While I have painted before, I would not consider myself a good traditional painter by any means. I feel you do not have to be a great painter to do matte painting. What you do need is a stronge grasp of the basics like composition, lighting, color and value. You can attain this knowlegde in many mediums(like photography, graphic design, etc). I would encourage people to learn painting and drawing, it can only help.I can say this for a fact, If all matte artist painted their mattes, they would never meet thair deadlines. So using all that is availible to you is of paramount importance.

I've debated many times with many painters and matte painter about not being able to paint and what creates a "good" painting. My answer is always, I don;t give a crap how you did it, as long as it looks cool. So what if you can;t paint traditionaly, so what if you onlky know photoshop, if your image looks cool, then its cool.period.

[rrische]

You Da BOMB.

[ChristianM]

Thanks guys for the useful advice.

Rick, I'm looking forward to seeing your website when it's finished.

[slart]

i think rick is right , you dont have to be a traditional artist to be a matte painter , it helps but is not vital.

all the matte painters bar one at framestore have come from a traditional arts back ground. but if we shopping around for new people then the only thing that counts is there ability to be a digital matte painter . if they had a great portfolio then we would not care if they couldn't paint with traditional media.

all that matters is getting the job done , it does not matter how it is done.



slart

[bcottman]

I agree that most employers aren't hiring based on whether you have a traditional painting background or not. However, learning to paint will train your eye how to see and interpret nature better. It is less about pushing paint around than it is learning how to judge what looks believable. I would think that if you are trying to learn to make believable images, a traditional training could be a good route. It helps to be able to paint something in by hand confidently if you have to as well.

If you want to learn traditional skills just draw and paint from life. Medium isnt really so important, I think oils are the most flexible, but each one has its workarounds. Use photoshop for mattes though.

good luck

Brenton

[rrische]

And if you are going to do a lot of painting in Photoshop, be very VERY good.

The bar is extremely high.

[Daniel]

Just thought I'd give my two cents worth...

In my experience most employers for any industry don't really care about how you get the job done, just as long as you get it done, professionally and quickly.

I too am a wanna-be future matte painter, but I don't touch oils or acrylics. Though I do read and study alot! I find the best people and learn as much as I can from them. Thats what I like about this website, there are professionals like Rick here that are more than happy to answer questions and provide plenty of tips!

Also, you should definitely check out the Gnomon DVD sets they are grrrreat!

[erik]

Isn't there only one real ART ? The one coming out of human traditional physical skills...Isn't the rest just a proffession floating on some basic talent and then lifted out of it's proportions by a machine??

I've debated many times with many painters and matte painter about not being able to paint and what creates a "good" painting. My answer is always, I don't give a crap how you did it, as long as it looks cool. So what if you can't paint traditionaly, so what if you onlky know photoshop, if your image looks cool, then its cool.period.

[rrische]

I'm sure this was the attitude when someone first painted an oil painting...

[bcottman]

Artist have had there "talent lifted out of it's proportions by machines" for a long time now.. Vermeer used optical devices for instance. However his skill allowed him to use those devices better than say, david hockney. same thing happened when photography hit the scene. Many traditional painters have since used photography to aid their work.

I wouldnt define "real art" by how it was created.

[spectator]

****drunk****

IF a 10 years old boy start to learn painting using photoshop and you ask him what is traditional painting? The answer would be "Photoshop"! Because that's his tradition. It's the first thing he touched. On the other hand Painting with real brush and canvas is not traditional to the boy, how can it be traditional?

Composition, Color theory, Perspective, ect.. they're not traditional. They're knowledge/rules/call it what you want. Is it there to learn at ANY point in time.

Whichever you choose first will be considered traditional later on.

[maxgabl]

I agree with most of what you guys say: nobody cares, how you get the job done. But: If on top of knowing all the basics (perspective, color theory etc), you happen to be good with the brush, because you have painted a great deal from live, you will be faster and less dependent on photographic material (you can paint in the blanks). This is obviously an advantage. A laptop and a Wacom tablet are as good a tools as oil and acrylics. So, if you decided you want to learn how to paint, it's not going to make you a lesser matte painter, it will help.

[Eisner]

The fundemental knowledge of describing light, colour and composition will always be important to matte painting. Using this knowledge to it's best effect is what innevitabley makes a painting work.

Anyone can piece photos together. But like maxgabl says the skills and understanding that a painter develops, helps fill in the gaps.

This doesn't mean that all matte artists should have the ability to paint with traditional materials. This knowledge can be gained no matter what materials you use. It is gained simply by looking, studying, and copying the real world.

When you consider this, a soley, digital matte artist should really be able to apply the same skill to paper or canvas as all the rules are the same, it's just different paint.

This doesn't mean they have to. But they should be able to speak the same language.