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rrische
10-30-2004, 06:13 AM
I've been looking through the matte painting challenge submissions.
I've really enjoyed the work I've seen so far. But it got me thinking
about an idea for a different kind of challenge....
The ultimate goal of a matte painting is to fool the viewer into thinking
the image they are viewing was actually photographed, that it look
believeably real. I think the job of a matte artist really breaks down into
two basic categories....the ability to visualize what doesn't exist, and the
ability to render that image to a level of finish so that it looks photoreal.
It has to have the qualities of a single, unified photographic image. This
has never been more true than it is today, as audiences have become
extremely sophisticated and able to spot deficiencies at a glance.
All artists are interested in creating images that are arresting, beautiful
and dramatic. But matte artists MUST have the skills to make that image
look PHOTOREALISTIC. You must become intimately familiar with the
qualities that photography posesses.
Early in my career, I did several jobs that required me to paint directly
onto photo enlargements. While this didn't exactly thrill me at the time,
I've since come to realize that this experience was invalueable. In order
for my painted additions to blend successfully, I had to become acutely
aware of the underlying properties of the photo beneath- LIGHTING, subtle
color and tonal properties, EDGE QUALITY, sharpness (or lack thereof),
lens perspective, aerial perpective, EXPOSURE....the list goes on. All of
these properties had to be studied and duplicated in the process of doing
the work, or the painting failed, it didn't look "photoreal".

So, here's my idea for a challenge. Find a photograph (or take one your-
self) and duplicate it. The more low-key and mundane the image, the
better. Don't alter it. Don't add to it. Don't dramatize it. DUPLICATE IT.
If you can, start with an image that's at least 1k, preferably 2k. Make
a new, blank document with the same pixel dimensions, and recreate
your source picture in this document. It can be any subject you want,
the skies the limit. The only condition is that it be a real photo of a real
subject. A building, a city, a landscape, an interior, whatever. Just copy
it.
Here's the catch- YOU CANNOT USE ANY PART OF YOUR SOURCE IMAGE
IN YOUR RECREATION. No cloning, no cut-and-pasting, no cheating. You
must study and become intimately involved with your source picture,
but reconstruct it using other sources and methods. You can trace the
composition in your source, but that's it. After that, you leave it alone.
You can place your source on the topmost layer in your reconstruction
document, but ONLY as reference to gauge your progress (by turning
it off and on). Compare your new image with your source picture- if they
don't look the same, you're not finished. Figure out WHY they don't look
the same. Zoom out and look at the image overall. Zoom in and examine
the details. The key is to really LOOK at it.
This exercise totally relieves you of the responsiblity of "designing" your
image, and focuses completely on the "nuts and bolts" aspect of matte
painting. In the real world, sometimes you will be asked to contribute
your design input, and sometimes you won't. Sometimes the client has
a crystal-clear idea of the image they want (and have supplied you with
clear concept art that illustrates it), and sometimes they only have a vague
idea. Those are the times you are called upon to demonstrate your
talent as an artist and designer. But in any case, this exercise will build
skills you'll use EVERY DAY as a matte artist, no matter the situation.
You can use the paint tools, you can clone and cut-and-paste from other
photos, you can model your subject in 3D (and light and texture it also)
WHATEVER feels right to you, it's all on the table. The only condition is
that your final result must be as close as possible to the original,
preferably identical to it.
Sound hard? Maybe. But I think you'll learn a LOT from this exercise.

So, what do you think? Who's up for it?

satch
10-30-2004, 08:50 AM
I'm in. This is just the kind of thing I was looking for to get my paint skills back up to somewhere usable. I tried painting some stuff in the last challenge and ran out of time to get it photo real. You're absolutly right about it being mundane, it's perfect. No fantastical compositions, just the basics.

Great idea!

Eisner
10-30-2004, 09:08 AM
I have to say this is a very good idea for a challenge...I'm off to photo something really boring.

Definately in!!

:o

MoonDog
10-30-2004, 10:53 AM
This is perfect for a challenge - like an audition, almost. I think the reason I like the idea so much is that it scares the living hell out of me. You can't hide behind your skill with a clone brush.

Excellent idea.

Maryam
10-30-2004, 10:56 AM
rrische,

I think it’s a good practice. It would be good if you could provide an image for the challenge you are proposing,
for those who want to start from the same plate. This way they can easily learn from each others experience
by comparing their works.

If anyone else has a new idea for the challenge, please submit your suggestions here.
We will announce our next challenge at Matte Painting Challenges forum soon.

dstipes
10-30-2004, 11:42 AM
Hey Rick,

If this becomes an official challenge, would you consider color sampling from the source image to be okay or should custom color mixing be used?

David

Haman
10-30-2004, 12:42 PM
The idea of this challenge is terrifying, but exciting at the same time. I think it's just the sort of exercise that will really test our basic abilities as artists. To Maryam... maybe Rick or yourself could post a picture as an alternative to those who don't have a good pic readily available... letting us have the option of doing either-or.

rrische
10-30-2004, 12:45 PM
Hi David,
Yeah, color sampling would be allowed, because that would be
something you'd do in the real world. I'll often search around
and find a photo for color reference (a sunset, for instance) and
keep it open next to my image. I use it as a color palette, and just
sample the *heck* out of it :wink:

Maryam,
Since this would be a fairly labor-intensive challenge (if you do it
right), wouldn't it be more fun for people if they chose their own
picture to work from? If they show a before and after when they
posted, we'd all be able see and discuss how they worked and
what techniques they used.

edit: However, if you don't have a pic lying around that you like,
I could find something and post it. But beware, you might not like
what I pick :twisted:

rrische
10-30-2004, 02:40 PM
This probably sounds a lot scarier than it is. You're freed
from the question of "what" your image is supposed to look
like, and you can concentrate totally on "how" you're going
to achieve it.
You'll have one big advantage you wouldn't have in a real
work situation- you'll already know what the final result will
look like!
Digital matte painting tools (with Photoshop as the core) are
so flexible, and so vast, the fun comes in discovering all the
different ways there are to get to the finish line. Choosing the
"right" one for you is part of the fun.
Just remember the condition- your final image must look as
close as possible to your source image!

Fredric
10-30-2004, 04:42 PM
Hello

Ok for this challenge it will be the first time i'll do that but i should know that this moment will happen.
I think like Maryam that you propose the same picture for every one, we able to see the work to the others, I've think it will be interesting.
So when you want, i'm here to learn and "to empress the gallery" (french expression i don't know if you say the same thing in english...)

rrische
10-30-2004, 04:59 PM
OK, how about this? Someone can supply a photo for people
to use if they want to see how others solve the same problems
in their picture.
OR, you're free to use your own picture, and then you can detail
your process so that people can see how you solved the problems
in an image different fom theirs.

I can see the benefits of BOTH of these approaches. When I work
with a large group of artists (at ILM, say), we would often get together
and look at each others work, and discuss problems and issues, and
different ways people chose to solve them.

Fredric
10-31-2004, 10:08 AM
Hello les potos,

there was a mistake in my last post. I didn't want to say that i'm here to empress the gallery but i wanted to mean that i'm NOT here to empress the gallery. RAhh it very difficult to say what i want when i don't practise very well english ;o) More over i don't know if this expression empress the gallery mean something in english, so anyway ;o

Muni
10-31-2004, 04:40 PM
sounds interesting.....you going to participate Rick???!!!

rrische
10-31-2004, 04:47 PM
ME??? YOU MEAN I HAVE TO WORK???????

dstipes
10-31-2004, 07:16 PM
Hey Rick,

This is a tough crowd! They're gonna make ya push pixels, man!

David

rrische
10-31-2004, 08:22 PM
TOTALLY tough crowd!

Actually, I could really get into taking this challenge myself.
I have some work going on that'll take a couple more weeks to
finish up. I should have some free time after that!

Jensen
10-31-2004, 08:33 PM
Challenge or no challenge...I've begun already, because I've heard of this exercise before, and have yet to buckle down and do it. Sooooo, now's better than ever, I'll post something as it comes!

Thanks for the inspiration and advice rrische.

Ciao!

plaf
05-02-2005, 09:38 AM
I like the sound of this challenge, I can definitely see some educational value in it. Count me in!

Now to find an image :)

kd
07-14-2005, 01:47 PM
me too =)

renderizer
09-19-2005, 06:10 AM
So...has this idea actually evolved into something or has it just vanished into oblivion?

jsmithee
09-19-2005, 01:40 PM
http://www.mattepainting.org/forum/view ... 88&start=0 (http://www.mattepainting.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=588&start=0)

renderizer
09-19-2005, 03:09 PM
Yeah, thanks...missed it.

I had already looked at that thread before, but the first entries all came without the reference, so I thought this was a completely different thing.

Pretty cool stuff anyway.

rrische
09-19-2005, 06:40 PM
Yeah, the challenge idea kind of morphed into the painting
sketch thread, which is great! You can never do enough study,
and there's some really cool work in there.

If anyone wanted to, you could choose one of your sketches
and take it to full finish using your reference photo. I'd love
to see these taken all the way to the finish line as full renderings! 8)

mykhol
09-21-2005, 03:28 PM
hey this is a great challenge, im new to matte painting and new to this forum. i have already began my painting for this challenge and its shaping up better then i expected. having trouble painting the hair on the body of a wolf though. its multi coloured with many layers of light, plus the hair is wet and dirty.

i cant believe how much you can achieve by just really looking at the picture and painting all the little details that make the image real. im finding it very time consuming though. but thats probably because im a beginner and dont have a graphics tablet.

rrische
10-01-2006, 11:53 AM
Just wanted to update an old thread....

I'm doing some matte painting for "Night at the Museum" and wanted
to share that I'm currently doing THIS EXACT CHALLENGE for a shot!
I have a blurry, grainy, unusable still shot they want to use as a BG
for a comp. So I am painstakingly recreating the entire thing exactly
(composition, color, lighting, value) using other reference photos and
painting. Proof (once again) that life does, indeed, have a sense of humor!

:cry: :lol:

Rick

p.s.- I'll post a before and after walkthrough after the film comes out.

mordecaidesign
02-05-2007, 09:05 AM
p.s.- I'll post a before and after walkthrough after the film comes out.

Where's the beef? Rick I can't wait to see the before and afters.

mordecaidesign
02-15-2007, 04:15 PM
Here's my work so far on this challenge (not to be confused with the sketch thread. This thread helped inspire the sketch thread but it is two different things)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/mordecaidesign/rickchallenge.jpg

Parts within the red are mine.

You can use the paint tools, you can clone and cut-and-paste from other
photos, you can model your subject in 3D (and light and texture it also)
WHATEVER feels right to you, it's all on the table. The only condition is
that your final result must be as close as possible to the original,
preferably identical to it.

It would be cheating if I did a livetrace or a cutout filter...right?

rrische
03-18-2007, 03:44 AM
p.s.- I'll post a before and after walkthrough after the film comes out.

Where's the beef? Rick I can't wait to see the before and afters.

Hi there! Sorry, I got busy and forgot all about this! :oops: :D

I've got some work that's clogging my desk right now. I'll get a post up as soon
as it's done.

About your mountain piece....I think it's coming along nicely! I'd say keep going as you are, bring your image up to full detail.

I have to confess ignorance....don't know about livetrace or the cutout filter.
But I use Photoshop like it's still Version 3... :shock:

Brandon
03-18-2007, 04:08 AM
i didnt even know about this challenge.. i think i will give it a go soon. :) should be a good exercise.

damonsjr86
07-07-2007, 05:13 PM
sounds interesting, im in!!