[ehsan]

I use 3ds max ... oh sorry It was better that I say I am learning 3dsmax ... But I see that C4D is most usefully ...
Can you tell me witch one is better .

and can you tell me why we should bring matte into a 3d scene ?
We can use for example after effect for animate ... Why 3d ?!!!!

[rockhoppermedia]

directors these days want flexibility in there shots that is why they want things done in 3d. Yes you can animate a scene which takes alot of time. In 3d however I as a director can turn round to a Matte painter for example Dusso and say I like the pan on this shot but can you then fly into the painting to establish that the shot is a POV to the audience. Dusso will probaly roll his eyes and say yes ok. The next morning the shot will be ready for the director to view. If you animate the shot you have no flexibilty and will probaly put a week onto the production schedule which costs alot of money. If you also use 3d you have mapping data that the production designer can use for set building. The lighting designer can use the mapping for working out his lighting rig. A lot of people can view the scene and build into the shot. The poor guy who is doing the blue screen work has tracking data to work from. The animatics department from preproduction has something to work on for selling the shot. 3d is hard work but benefits the production team as a whole, animating the shot only benefits is the matte painter. Computers and spatial design puts the whole production team on the same pipeline, for example spielbergs war of the worlds was created phenomally fast for a fx movie.

As a hobbyist matte painter animating the scene is a cheap and reliable way of doing your work, but some day you (I know you will!) get a phone call asking if you could do a 3d based matte and having those 3d skills will benefit you in the long term.

I am struggling with blender at the moment as i cannot afford Max or Cinema 4d, but i am learning just in case some lunatic rings me up and asks me to do a 3d based matte.

Prolific poster and bad painter

Rich :D

[ehsan]

Hey Rich ... thanks ...
:D
I have a long way ... :lol: to get to master dusso ...
thanks for the help ... cheers .

[RiKToR]

Also 3d with modern camera projection techniques you can get the ability to move around in your painting, some what limited though. You could paint the scene and animate it AE or Combustion or whatever but you may never get the paralax that you would get in real life. A good example by a fellow forum member can be found here.

http://www.mattepainting.org//forum/...pic.php?t=2526

[Natsu]

Sorry for bumping this thread, but I'm very interested in this topic, and searched for it so not to open a new one about the same question. Because my question is exactly the same, What do you think is the best 3D program? Which one would you recommend 2D illustrators?

So far, I can't work with any 3D program. But I know that if I want to become really good, I need to. I can do my perspectives old style, with pencil and ruler, but the time I would invest on them would be atrocious. So, I need to get started with a 3D program. And, starting from absolute ignorance, with no problem whatsoever of switching from one program to another, I would like to know which one you would recommend. If I need to start from the very beginning, I may well start with the best.

The only one I own now is bender. It is free software, deliciously light on the hard drive and doesn't need to be installed. If it can give good results, I would love to use it. But I dont' want to invest dozens of hours on it just to realize I have to switch afterwards.

So, which one would you recommend? Bearing in mind I don't intend to become a 3D artist, but am trying to become a 2D artist with a better grasp of perspective and lightning. I don't need the best program for 3D, but the one that would help the most with 2D art. 3D studio, 3DMax, Poser, bender some unknown one? What are your opinions?

[Alex Jenyon]

On Cgtalk, this question is banned outright - and there is a very good reason for it. You wouldn't go to a car enthusianst forum, and ask 'which car is better', would you? :wink:

No 3D package is 'better' than any of the others - they have strengths and weaknesses, they do different jobs, and they are all quite difficult to learn. Some are better value for money. Some render quicker 'out of the box'. Some are more expandable, and have hundreds of plugins available.

Want a very quick 3D mockup for your scene? Use google sketchup - it's free.

Want to hard code a procedural effect for an entrie planet blowing up? Better crank out Houdini.

Want to re-topologise a messy mesh? Spend a few quid on 'Silo'.

You see the problem.

Even if they aren't free, all of the major packages have demos, time limited trails or personal learning editions - so you can get hold of all of them and decide for yourself. You WILL have to spend 'dozens of hours', though - that's the nature of the game...

If you are primarily concerned with getting a job, then check out some jobs you like the look of, and see what package they ask for.

Hope that gives you some idea why you won't get an easy answer...

Take care

AJ

[graphmac]

After using all the conventional ones I have found Blender the fastest to get a basic model shaped up. (Its free btw www.blender.org)

It is unconventional, difficult to learn without tutorials - not particularly intuitive. But I can make something faster in that than in Max or Maya Zbrush etc, by a country mile.

[Natsu]

Graphmac, thank you for the info about blender: that's the one I called "bender"... No wonder I had problems finding tutorials :oops: . That is the first one I am going to try.

Originally Posted by Alex Jenyon

On Cgtalk, this question is banned outright - and there is a very good reason for it. You wouldn't go to a car enthusianst forum, and ask 'which car is better', would you? :wink:

Indeed not. But I certainly would ask for advice about the car which most suited my needs. A Ferrari is far better than a Dacia... but the Dacia may suit the needs of a family better, and I wouldn't hesitate in asking. Specially, I would ask about other users' experience. I know the question sounds too blunt. The title of the thread says "Which 3D program is better?", but I'd rather bump an old thread than start a duplicated one.

No 3D package is 'better' than any of the others - they have strengths and weaknesses, they do different jobs, and they are all quite difficult to learn.

It's good to know. Forgive me if my question was over simplifying and rude. It came from absolute ignorance of all those programs. I haven't ever used one, and have a very defined idea of what I want them for, so I thought some direction would be helpful.

Want a very quick 3D mockup for your scene? Use google sketchup - it's free.

See? I didn't know that one existed, for example. I know my question was oversimplistic and ignorant. But I'd rather ask and look ignorant than shut up and remain so.

You see the problem.

Yes. As I said before, maybe I made an oversimplistic enquiry, and of course it can't be provided with a simple answer. But what you answered is good enough, because for example, you are mentioning programs I didn't know existed.

And... I know asking which program is "best" is possibly asking too much. But my experience also worked on this one. If you ask for the best 2D program to do illustrations, chances are the answer will be Photoshop by a vast majority. I know, again, it's simplifying things too much, but knowing Photoshop rules almost uncontested in its own realm, I didn't discard the possibility of there being an equivalent for 3D work.

Even if they aren't free, all of the major packages have demos, time limited trails or personal learning editions - so you can get hold of all of them and decide for yourself.

Not with my computer, I'm afraid. My hard drive is almost going to explode. Any program I include on it can cripple my photoshop. I am waiting to receive some money with which I will renew all my equipment, but until it comes, I am stuck with a pretty slow computer. As soon as I get the new one, however, I am following your advice. I hadn't considered it before because I'm too used to work with a slow machine. It is also extremely intolerant to uninstall. Doesn't work well afterwards.

You WILL have to spend 'dozens of hours', though - that's the nature of the game...

Hundreds and probably thousands, more like. :-) I think there has been a misunderstanding here. It seems I gave an idea of wanting to learn the easy way and skip all the work. It's not that: it's only that my computer is way too old, and doesn't cope very well with many programs. Uninstalling anything leaves it basically crippled unless formatted afterwards. I know I will have to invest a bazillion of hours before getting halfway decent work, but I wanted to read other people's opinion on the subject. Some direction always helps.

Besides, I'm also in a little bit of a hurry... Well, let's say that if I don't make it as an illustrator in a year, when my savings are gone, I'll have to go back to menial jobs. I know I will have to work a lot, but any loss of time may leave me at the mercy of Lady Mortgage again. I guess the sentence about "not wanting to invest dozen of hours" sounded silly and lazy, and gave the impression that I wanted to become good in three days. I know that's impossible. I just would like some directions, such as the ones you gave. You just mentioned ones I didn't know of.

As a general rule, there are "expert" programs who allow the making of wondrous things, but are difficult to manage: I would like to avoid those, for example. I need something basic, just to calculate perspectives and light effects to paint on 2D over them. So the easiest to learn and use would be, so far, the best choice. I am glad you mentioned the google one, I'll give it a try, too.

Thank you both for your answers. I'll start practicing: in the end that's what solves everything.

[Alex Jenyon]

No worries - glad to be of (some) help.

I'm a big fan of google SketchUp (as you'll see on my website), but it's got a very specific, limited and definite use. A specific, definite use I happen to need for my job, but still limited.

That's why I also know maya, zbrush, renderman and modo.

And why I gave you a very standard, woolly answer to your question...

Good luck with your work - and keep posting on the forums.

Take care

AJ

[nickmarshallvfx]

Although its none of my business, and not what you were asking in the topic, as some advice, i would try and get some work now to supplement you whilst you are learning, because to go from the ground up and become an illustrator in one year would be a serious achievement. I have been throwing myself at this for over 2 years now, and still have another year or so before i will start seriously looking for work, but im already a little nervou that there is so much to learn in that time. I admire your will to succeed, but better to be realistic and find some part-time work that will let you keep going for at least 2 years whilst you learn.

Again, its not my business, but it did strike me whilst reading your post that you may need to hear that.

Nick