[tesmeralda]

Originally Posted by rrische

Ivo, Josh and Dave....TRIPLE THREAT.

Love those guys.

Yeah, they're a great group! Would not mind at all working with those guys again (and they've told me likewise - unless they're lying ....) :o

Those guys had mentioned your name from time to time; all good things of course!

[rrische]

No. I talked to Ivo. They're lying.

:-)

[smooth]

haha.
*slap-slap*

Curious to hear about This Academy you speak of and it's inability to deliver whats necessary. I'd love the chance to be taught by Ronn Brown or anyone else from the industry with similar experience.
U know gnomon has the right idea. They see the market need and fullfill that need. What's stopping others from doing the same? The industry is growing, so is the need for advanced training that is lacking.
In the gaming industry it's happening...it's going to grow even more. Ubisoft here is expanding at a tremendous rate and is going to start a school program to meet the needs of the gaming industry. Signing up artists from that school to work for them. it's genius. Not to mention $$$. Artist get the right training and the company involved get the right people they need with the right qualities/skills. Kinda like in house work training. Who knows the industry more thatn the people/companies who are involved in the industry. These are the ones that should develop/be involved in the education of such.
My 2 cents.

Tom i'd like to see some of your Shrek and Riddick closeups if you can.
Shrek Large04+01 and Riddick Large 01.
Thanks!

+smooth+

[tesmeralda]

Originally Posted by smooth

Curious to hear about This Academy you speak of and it's inability to deliver whats necessary . . . My 2 cents.

I'll give you a nickels worth on this later.

Tom i'd like to see some of your Shrek and Riddick closeups if you can. Shrek Large04+01 and Riddick Large 01.

Do you mean Shrek Larges 04 AND 01?

[smooth]

yeah, those are the ones.
Thanks Tom.

+smooth+

[tesmeralda]

Originally Posted by smooth

yeah, those are the ones.
Thanks Tom.
+smooth+

Okay smooth, here's one from Riddick:
-The steps were CG (of which this may not be the final render) except towards the door; that was built on the set
-This is actually the full painting as the shot was originally designed; funny story behind this is that the extras were directed to run towards the steps (from screen right), but reached the steps too early & started running back (from off screen you can hear someone yelling "no, run back towards the steps"). Yeah, great ...



Here's how it ended up looking on screen:



Shrek samples coming . . .

[tesmeralda]

Here's a couple of matte paintings from Shrek:
- The first image is all painting, except for the foreground flowers which are CG (they animate from side to side in the shot); in this shot the camera makes a slight, nodal, tilt up
- The second shot is a lock-off





Do you wonder why these are painted so loosley? I had two days to paint the first one, maybe 3.5 days to knock out the second - we were ripping through matte paintings at that point in production!

[tesmeralda]

Okay, here's my 5 cents:

Originally Posted by smooth

Curious to hear about This Academy you speak of and it's inability to deliver whats necessary. I'd love the chance to be taught by Ronn Brown or anyone else from the industry with similar experience.
U know gnomon has the right idea. They see the market need and fullfill that need. What's stopping others from doing the same? The industry is growing, so is the need for advanced training that is lacking.

The Academy has now become a huge "university", and is the largest private art school in the country. This does not make it the best school by far because (off the record) it's more focused on making money than providing the best art education money can buy. That being said, it IS possible to get a good education there, but you must know what you want and do everything within your rights to get that from them. Teachers cycle in & out of there and, for as long as I've known, so have department chairs. (Ronn Brown left there years ago and went back to matte painting - I think he went to NZ to work on LOTR). Again, this revolving door could be a good thing because someone really good might come along for a semester or two that could get you going on the right track. It's really tough to determine what kind of training is needed to get into the vfx industry because it really depends on the individual. IMO, however, people with a really solid art education (drawing, painting, photography, filmmaking) have better longevity because it's the "vision" that's difficult to learn. The problem with a lot of training programs is that they are focused on teaching software; if you are a good artist, then you will pick up the CG stuff as needed. The best training has always been on the job (I'd rather get paid to learn you know ....) You mention Gnomon: Places like this are great for people who are already sound artists to pick up those CG skills if they can't get them on the job. If you are just starting out though, it may not be the best place to go (and it's pricey!)

In the gaming industry it's happening...it's going to grow even more. Ubisoft here is expanding at a tremendous rate and is going to start a school program to meet the needs of the gaming industry. Signing up artists from that school to work for them. it's genius. Not to mention $$$. Artist get the right training and the company involved get the right people they need with the right qualities/skills. Kinda like in house work training. Who knows the industry more thatn the people/companies who are involved in the industry. These are the ones that should develop/be involved in the education of such.
My 2 cents.
+smooth+

Really? Here's reality: Companies want to balance cheap labor (i.e. kids out of school) with experience ("expensive" older artists). Their interest in schools (not all companies, but most to varying degrees) goes as far as supplying their stable of "cheaper" artists. A few of these individuals will actually stick around the biz for awhile, but most will get dumped every few months (especially in the games industry) to keep costs down. And the older artists, who are usually supervisors & leads? They eventually get priced out once their contracts have been renewed too many times, and their salaries are viewed as being too high. Anyways, by that time, the kid out of school may have learned enough to become the lead. (Keep in mind that the film vfx industry is different because the timetables of projects are different than in games). I had a bunch of interns on the team I was Art Directing back at EA a couple years ago, so I know how the management thinks. The woman running the internship program was truly dedicated to doing what you described above, and did a great job at it. However, her goals for the program differed from managements' - she eventually got fed up, and left.

How's that for pessimistic ....[/quote]

Just remember this: The quick & easy route is tempting, but it's best to stay focused on what you really want. It's okay to get some "quick" traning to get your foot in the door, but always remember that it will only be just that. In order to advance you must continue to push yourself outside of your "day job" to get where you want. Good luck!

[Boof]

totally agree with Thomas' depiction of Academy. I recently finished up MFA program there. I was lucky enough to have the following matte painters as teachers: Caroleen "Jett" Green, Harrison Ellenshaw, Alan Sonneman, Emmanuel Shiu, and Michael Pangrazio. I focused on Matte Painting even when there wasn't a concrete focus in the curriculum for it and had to force the administration to let me do it. I figure if you are paying that much money in education you should be able to dictate what you want from it. If I was to do it all over again, I would go a different route. I was lucky enough to have Ronn Brown as head of the dept who in the couple times I talked with him helped me to set my focus in matte painting 'fore he left the school.

Thom, the high res postings are great. Get a greater appreciation for em seeing them bigger. Love the mountains one!!


Thanks
-E.

[smooth]

I totally agree with you Thomas. It's all about the $.
In the case I mentioned...Ubisoft will be getting better skilled cheap labour. I just hope the students don't sign some paper saying if they leave the school they MUST work for Ubisoft for x amount of time..etc. That would be soo evil. But in that case at least they would get an education needed for that particular field. Asuming this is the point of such an endeavor. But people must'nt assume just because it's a school that they are looking out for the students own good. Those days are looong gone. And maybe that's never changed but is more apparent these days than before. Everything comes down to $. It's up to the individual to seperate the good from the bad and find suitable replacements.
Funny as I'm writing this an old movie was playing on the tv and I caught the beginning as I'm typing. Pump up the Volume with Christian Slater...it starts off with his voice saying..."ever get the feeling that everything youve come to know is f---ed. Finding everything polluted. - education, the government, religion etc.
Unfortunatly this is true in some cases. Everything seems to be polluted..Sad.

The high res mattes look nice! Good work esp with the time to create them. Only problem is we're spoiling them by pumping out last minute pieces to fix a mess in which was easily avoidable. Right? So they think...hey we'll just get a matte painter to get our asses out of it. Was that the case?
I was reading the other topic and replied (must read Cinefex mag …
). I was amazed what was said about the industry and some attitudes towards matte painting and it's place in VFX.

+smooth+